But they are happy to refer any of your admissions of guilt to federal law enforcement who may come ask you the same questions. lol, you can’t just leave us hanging here. NSA Headquarters is conveniently located between Baltimore and Washington D.C., off the Baltimore/Washington Parkway (MD-295) in Ft. George G. Meade, Md. Archived Discussion Load All Comments. I told all my friends to just "tell the truth" about what they saw happen. I'm not sure what the line of unreasonableness is in that context. The national security guys should be rightfully paranoid. A Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) analyst who lost his job and his security clearance in 2009 has reached a settlement.John Dullahan was never informed of the reason for losing his job due to the Pentagon’s decision to invoke a national security clause which allows it to keep the reason for firing private, and eliminates the normal appeals process for fired government employees. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive. If I was not clear, they are looking to see if you can be blackmailed. If you come up inconclusive, it means that you are overthinking things and they give you a second try. "All of your previous polygraph tests indicated to us that you couldn't be trusted as far as we could throw you, however your latest one clearly shows that you have suddenly become as honest as the day is long. You will learn more about what to expect, how to prepare, and perhaps most importantly, how not to prepare. Thus, doing multiple sessions ensures fuller employment for the polygraph staff. I, and millions of other people, have received one and it's fairly well documented. Welcome to the team.". After being selected in November, Ellis passed a polygraph exam the next month and was granted a security clearance. David Thoreson Lykken. The most important thing to remember is that whatever you admit on these forms will be on record for review by any agency for the rest of your life. What they care about is you tell the truth with no reservation as it a sign you cannot be blackmailed. Very similar to my experience, but different 3-letter agency. > You can also be prosecuted for lying, since the polygraph examiners are federal investigators. Miller gave NSA Director Paul Nakasone until 6 p.m. Saturday to install Ellis in the job, according to several people who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity. They merely pretended they were convinced. How many times can NSA take polygraph for employement purposes, I have taken 3 will take 4th passed the 3rd.? I'd warrant most people have gotten away with doing things that should've gotten them arrested. etc. Lying to them is nonetheless a violation of 18 USC 1001. Certainly not joe shmoe polygraph examiners, but I was under the impression that the NSA examiners are sworn federal law enforcement officers. These are the questions you will be asked to get a baseline reading of your breathing, blood pressure, heart, and perspiration rates. Now that I say that, though, I can't find a reference to support this. It's used as more of a method to trick you into telling the truth than it is to detect lies. Maybe this person has a better understanding of what's going on around the world and how different cultures work, possibly speaks multiple languages, and it might be a good thing to welcome their knowledge instead of scaring them off? They do threaten legal action if you lie about something on your SF-86. Source(s): https://shrink.im/bazsY. My second polygraph in no way resembled the first. You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border. pretend to be angry and convinced about the person’s guilt in order to get them to either confess or to break down. It's an interesting process. Took the first one they said might have to come back for second. If the answer yes, then say yes. You're not asking for a job at the local donut shop, you're specifically getting involved in an organization that preoccupies itself with threats to the nation-state, internal and external. Secret Service) and you have to guess whether you're eligible. All too often, such publicly-made claims by those with vested interests in the perpetuation of polygraphy (a make-believe science that offers make-believe security) go unchallenged. Polygraph examiners are not sworn federal law enforcement officers. My employer really wanted me cleared so I was coached a bit, told that unless I admit to being a spy it almost doesn't matter what I admit I have done, as long as I am truthful. I told them straight out that my job required a lifestyle poly and random urinalysis, and that if they decided to do that to me the next morning, then I would be totally giving up my friends to the examiners. Seriously. ", No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. I expect several people reading your note might also have gone through this process and failed. It's illegal to lie to the Federal Government period: Keep in mind, however, that this is not reciprocal: The Federal government can lie to you with impunity. You can enhance your privacy when browsing and posting to this forum by using the free and open source Tor Browser and posting as a guest (using a fake e-mail address such as nobody@nowhere.com) or registering with a free, anonymous ProtonMail e-mail account. More precisely, it's a violation of 18 USC 1001 to lie about "any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States" (with a couple of specific exceptions as given). George Maschke, a former U.S. military counterterrorism translator who flunked an FBI polygraph and went on to help found an organization opposed to its use in employment screening, calls the NSA video “Orwellian.” “It’s Orwellian, because the truth is the last thing the NSA wants you to know about the polygraph,” he says. Lifestyle questions include questions about drug use, possible crimes, etc., and national security questions include questions about foreign contacts, involvement in terrorism, etc. From what I can tell, the way that they polygraph criminals and people in intelligence is roughly the same. Telling them the truth about something that happened 9 years ago isn't likely to get you booted. I was invited back for a second polygraph. Related: Does your resume pass the 6-second test? However, I am not aware of any case where anyone has been criminally prosecuted for lying during an NSA polygraph interrogation. There is no public transportation to the NSA Campus. Took second they said will have to come back for third. In the CIA's analysis of the second exam, they were critical of their failure to convey to the second examiner the existing suspicions. You can also visit our chat room where posts automatically expire after a maximum of 24 hours. Telling them the truth about something that happened 9 years ago isn't likely to get you booted. I was explicitly told that I failed my first polygraph (the examiner was convinced I used more drugs than I let on), but some of the other interns were drilled about crazier things, like contacts with foreign governments or involvement with terrorist groups. The polygraph interview is designed to catch anyone seeking to infiltrate the NSA for purposes of spying on the U.S. government, and anyone concealing other information that would bar them from receiving a security clearance. “The NSA is not interested in people with no history of indiscretion,” I was told. The second examiner concluded that there were no further indications of deception. This sounds unreasonably intrusive IMO. Oh, man. In some instances, however, you may be given a "Directed Lie Test" (DLT) or "Guilty Knowledge Test" (GKT) instead. I wonder if you could get prosecuted or investigated for things you admit to during the interview. In the first phase, you go over your security forms (SF-86 and related) in detail with your polygraph examiner. That part is not true. It's the only thing that makes sense given the scientific unreliability, the random unfounded accusations by interviewers and whatnot. Considering lie detectors are inadmissible in court, probably not. Sadly, 'Fuck you and the horse you rode in on' would be an inappropriate response. Watch it here, along with AntiPolygraph.org’s commentary: ... Evans was repeatedly interviewed in the months after the disappearances but passed a polygraph examination and was cleared as a suspect. At my time I was told that all interviews at a certain exit off I-95 in Maryland were done by FBI. The standard polygraph test is the CQT, or "Control Question Test." Price of freedom, etc. They specifically want someone who'll be _their spook_. In the second phase, they hook you up to the polygraph and ask two series of very specific questions, one called "lifestyle" and one called "national security." If you smoked pot or did cocaine 8 years ago very infrequently you should have no issues. I'm interested to know when this was because I am reading between the lines and believe little has changed on the questions between when you did it and I. I don't think he enjoyed his experience quite as much. Please type the characters that appear in the image. Polygraph tests don't depend on secrecy. Lots more questions about drugs, some really bizarre things I had never heard of. In the second phase, they hook you up to the polygraph and ask two series of very specific questions, one called "lifestyle" and one called "national security." … Lying to them is a criminal offense. Polygraph abuse at CIA, NSA. Max 200000 characters. At least when they interviewed me back in 1989, I was as honest with them as I could be about what I could remember, and I was honest with them about how much I couldn't remember. Razmatazz. Some, like the FBI, have public drug qualifier policies you will need to meet [1] and there is no wiggle room (1 day short of 10 years and you're 100% ineligible). This is a standard practice for polygraph interviews. Lots of questions about drug use. I would so much rather get the animal question. The 6 p.m. deadline passed without Nakasone taking action. The pick one question, more or less at random, and double/triple/quadruple down on it until you break. During the second try, if you fail, you are out, if you come up inconclusive.. the reader determines if you are on the positive side or negative side. They may know already you buggered a goat, or snorted a kg of the white stuff. It's the NSA, dude. I also wonder if there's any sort of legal privacy requirement that stops the examiner or someone else with records access from spreading around information related to your examination. https://www.intelligencecareers.gov/NSA/nsaapplicantportal.html The process to join the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) is long and arduous. There is no other appropriate reaction unless you're terrified of retribution because it's the USSR or one of the wannabes. I used this to my advantage on more than one occasion, when the gaming group I was with was a bit too casual with their use of certain recreational pharmaceuticals. it's all about context. Your other responses will be judged against these results. Then that's what you say in response to the question. https://www.fbijobs.gov/working-at-fbi/eligibility. But, yeah, I tried to be as accurate as possible, modulo that doubt about how possible it is to accurately answer these questions. According to the NSA’s polygraph policy, the polygraph unit can administer up to three “tests” on its own say-so. The National Security Agency denied a top-secret clearance to David Vermette this year after two polygraph tests. If you're particularly desirable to the managers who're looking to hire you, they'll keep inviting you to take more polygraphs, and you'll eventually pass. The National Security Agency (NSA) has produced a video about its polygraph screening program. The polygraph can't actually measure anything that can (with any reliability) indicate whether you're telling the truth or lying though. They just want to know you will admit anything you have done as that is the key to make sure others cannot gain leverage over you. Some agencies do not publish this policy (i.e. Entirely appropriate as you get up and leave. I'm not sure who keeps a really diligent record of how many times they do drugs at parties. The parent poster is correct. Strangely, the government never actually gave me a polygraph or urinalysis test, ever. Remaining characters: Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg. But I posit that it’s way more likely that it’s part of the standard intimidation technique used by basically every professional intimidator ever – i.e. What does admitting you had sex with a goat have to do with if the machine works or not? I'd be throwing in the word "Traitor" if it were me, but only on the basis that it is absolutely true. If so, I think we went to the same school system. Ana Belen Montes, a Cuban spy, passed a counterintelligence scope polygraph test administered by DIA in 1994. Now, I am no expert on these things, but something tells me that they are doing this wrong. Took third they said they were pretty confident I should be okay. HOWEVER: law enforcement agencies are quite a different story and tend to be much stricter in their requirements. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001. Having thousands of friends and acquaintances around the world may well be disqualifying for certain positions, and assets for others. I was pretty honest about my drug use. Some security clearance applicants may be asked to take a second, or even a third polygraph in an attempt to get conclusive results. Technically you don't even have to lie to a Federal official since the statute doesn't specify that; it just has to be a matter "within the jurisdiction" of the Federal government. What makes you think they want Mr. Cosmopolitan who lunches with Erdogan's third cousin and breakfasts with the Pope? It’s all part of the act to make you nervous. For defense and intelligence agencies, they want to see that there's nothing "recent" (past few years) or "chronic" (borderline or outright addictive behavior). I think my biggest benefit there was telling the story about how I saw that kind of stuff tear lives apart, and turn people who had been best friends into worst enemies, and the negative follow-on impacts of what happens when you can't pay your rent, you can't pay your electric bills, etc... because you have this debt to someone else that suddenly must be repaid this afternoon. The application will provide an opportunity to disclose foreign contacts. Nothing about it sounds unreasonably intrusive. About half the time (based on my discussions with other prospective interns), the examiner becomes convinced you're lying about one of these questions and really drills into you. Nsa Polygraph. I am not surprised to learn that I had not passed my polygraph test. But examiner claimed that I was being evasive. I wasn't shy about it because I had had legal run-ins over it when I was young so I knew it was already out there. I thought, this is stupid, it doesn't work at all, he's just guessing. Like, "How many times did you use this drug?" They're very specific, like "Are you withholding any information about your involvement with illegal drugs in the past ten years?". “There is a war on and … What if you have a couple thousand acquaintances and friends around the world? Look at current events and how relationships are assets and liabilities. Possible, but how can you know for sure, if you were not there? Lying about something on your federal forms would make you vulnerable to blackmail, so that would definitely be something that the investigators would try to turn up. Yet, NSA refused to appoint him, in violation of merit system principles. You can be honest with your background investigator during the followup but there's no reason to commit those things to writing on a form that's likely to be easily accessible later on. After submitting an application, the hiring process consists of the following steps: HR Prescreen Interview (approximately 1-2 weeks) – Candidates meet with Human Resources to review their applications, resumes, and basic qualifications. That usually convinced them to be more careful. He still said I was being evasive. Depends on the position. It would be harder to persuade the same person about the evils of said cultures. The video uses interviews with former applicants, polygraph examiners and NSA employees to make the process seem less threatening. Interested to hear if anyone has successfully retrieved transcripts using a FOIA request. They do not care. You can think about polygraph tests as taking place in three phases: pre-test, in-test, and post-test. For example, my NSA polygrapher told me one of his subjects was unable to pass his polygraph, the illegal drug question, until he confessed to him his past hard-core (I can’t remember which drug, it wasn’t marijuana) drug habit. With a CQT polygraph, control questions will be mixed in among the relevant questions. In my case, I was extremely open and honest with the main investigator that I was interviewed by, including the things I did during college with recreational pharmaceuticals. While professional, she convinced me I was already a sure bet and that we just had to get through this process. Any fool watching the NSA video for insight into other uses of polygraphs does so at great peril.
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